Bloodless Coup

Moderator: Eoin

Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Niftium » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:18 am

Eoin wrote:What do you mean by "clipped at the source"? :)

There's bit of a band-pass filter on the harmonies or else maybe just a mic with a mid-range peak. Sounds like moderate compression as well. I think there's some valve crispiness going on in there, which could be a valve mic or a hot signal into a valve mic preamp or just some subtle post-production second-harmonic distortion.

The massive compressor on the drums gives the whole thing the impression of being somewhat more distorted/heavy than it really is.


Just a layman's way of putting it, that's all!

I can't say for sure it's a problem in the vocal recording, but it doesn't make sense as a post-production effect (unless it was unintentional). It's not just the highest notes, so I don't think he's out of range on the mic either. Compression fits, but that seems kind of...sloppy on their part.
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Eoin » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:54 pm

A layman's way of putting what though? Is what I'm asking you. :P "Sloppy" implies that the effect is undesirable...?

Compression is a standard process, but over-compressing to the point of causing distortion is difficult to do by accident. The vocal is quite compressed but not that much. Regular compression does tend to make existing distortion more apparent though, and applying a distortion effect to something post-compression tends to makes the distortion more consistent, since most distortion effects are amplitude-dependent.

In terms of it not making sense as a post-production effect, how do you figure? If it's not just the highest (amplitude?) notes, then it can't be clipping in the analogue signal path - since that would obviously be focused on transient peaks. Normal harmonic distortion from a valve preamp still fits what I'm hearing, as would a post-production effect designed to sound like harmonic distortion from a valve preamp. Even if I'm not hearing whatever it is you're hearing, I can't really think of any other sources of analogue distortion that would make sense. In my experience, accidental distortion is rarely so subtle.
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Niftium » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:53 pm

Eoin wrote:A layman's way of putting what though? Is what I'm asking you. :P "Sloppy" implies that the effect is undesirable...?

Compression is a standard process, but over-compressing to the point of causing distortion is difficult to do by accident. The vocal is quite compressed but not that much. Regular compression does tend to make existing distortion more apparent though, and applying a distortion effect to something post-compression tends to makes the distortion more consistent, since most distortion effects are amplitude-dependent.

In terms of it not making sense as a post-production effect, how do you figure? If it's not just the highest (amplitude?) notes, then it can't be clipping in the analogue signal path - since that would obviously be focused on transient peaks. Normal harmonic distortion from a valve preamp still fits what I'm hearing, as would a post-production effect designed to sound like harmonic distortion from a valve preamp. Even if I'm not hearing whatever it is you're hearing, I can't really think of any other sources of analogue distortion that would make sense. In my experience, accidental distortion is rarely so subtle.


If you're hearing something that's a little off, it's probably the same thing I'm hearing. It's a buzz in the vocal at several points in the chorus, like some drunk doing karaoke and standing too close to the mic (but far more subtle). I could get timestamps if that helps. By saying that it didn't make sense as a post-production effect, I mean that it doesn't make sense to be so subtle with intentional distortion, which is why I thought it was an accident (thus "sloppy"). It's also slightly irritating so I assumed it was unintentional, though that's hardly objective.

Also, I wasn't including myself in the "men of the golden ears" bit, so I apologize if you were hoping for something clearer/more coherent. :)
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Mr Benn » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:50 am

Anyone else at the Paradise tonight? Hanging around, waiting for my mates to land down and trying my best to look inconspicuous haha
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Eoin » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:44 am

Niftium wrote:If you're hearing something that's a little off, it's probably the same thing I'm hearing. It's a buzz in the vocal at several points in the chorus, like some drunk doing karaoke and standing too close to the mic (but far more subtle). I could get timestamps if that helps. By saying that it didn't make sense as a post-production effect, I mean that it doesn't make sense to be so subtle with intentional distortion, which is why I thought it was an accident (thus "sloppy"). It's also slightly irritating so I assumed it was unintentional, though that's hardly objective.


I wouldn't have said it's "off" though, it seems like a fairly normal bit of intentional distortion to me. Maybe the times for a couple of spots so I can see exactly where you mean? :)
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Mr Benn » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:38 am

Mr Benn wrote:Anyone else at the Paradise tonight? Hanging around, waiting for my mates to land down and trying my best to look inconspicuous haha


Guess nobody else on here was there! Not sure if I'm missing anything but setlist was (not in order, bar first 3 songs and last 3 songs!):

4 Minute Mile,
Velcro,
First Born For A Song,
Bad Skin Day,
Ribs Of A Broken Umbrella
The Great Defector
Rocky,
Alphabet Soup,
Eve,
Built To Last,
Flame,
Tongue
------------------------
Nightwatchmen,
Sugar High

Also, maybe I'm just getting old, but the J1-ers were fucking annoying!
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Niftium » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:01 am

Eoin wrote:
Niftium wrote:If you're hearing something that's a little off, it's probably the same thing I'm hearing. It's a buzz in the vocal at several points in the chorus, like some drunk doing karaoke and standing too close to the mic (but far more subtle). I could get timestamps if that helps. By saying that it didn't make sense as a post-production effect, I mean that it doesn't make sense to be so subtle with intentional distortion, which is why I thought it was an accident (thus "sloppy"). It's also slightly irritating so I assumed it was unintentional, though that's hardly objective.


I wouldn't have said it's "off" though, it seems like a fairly normal bit of intentional distortion to me. Maybe the times for a couple of spots so I can see exactly where you mean? :)


1:27, 2:38, and 2:53 all seem to be pretty noticeable. I'll be curious to hear what you think.

------In other news------

Saw the band for the first time last night in Chicago. Hell of a show. Maybe not the best crowd, but they occasionally got a pretty solid response (sing-alongs, backing melodies, etc.). Took a friend who had never even heard of the band before and he labeled it one of the best concerts he's ever attended. I've got to agree. The opener, James Vincent McMarrow was pretty powerful in a more understated way; I'll be looking more into him this week.

Setlist ran a little something like this:

Hey Anna Lena
Bad Skin Day
Velcro
First Born (extra bit of jamming at this end of this that was fantastic)
Eve, the Apple of My Eye
4 Minute Mile ("While writing this record, we read about a bullfighter named Hernandez. He walked into the ring, took one look at the bull and ran away. We thought, "Fair play to him.")
Next To You (with the R. Kelly bit)
Rocky
Built to Last
Flame
The Great Defector
White Water Song (was NOT expecting this, but I love that song, so I was thrilled)
Tongue
------
Nightwatchmen
Sugar High ("We wanted to go out on an economic note.")
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby VocalicPage » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:50 am

I'm still pissed off that they didn't play Hey Anna Lena in Washington DC. :(
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby stasia_k » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:33 pm

Those setlists look great! My sister went to the Philly show and said it was amazing. Unfortunately, I had to skip this U.S. tour - had a ticket for Pittsburgh, but caught a cold a few days prior and couldn't handle a 2 hr drive each way + a late night :( But I'm not too sad - can't do it all. Hopefully next time around they'll play Cleveland!
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Eoin » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:07 pm

Niftium wrote:1:27, 2:38, and 2:53 all seem to be pretty noticeable. I'll be curious to hear what you think.


Hey, sorry, I only checked these out now. I know what you mean (finally) - I didn't realise those were what you were talking about! Ignore everything I said before. :wink:

It doesn't follow closely enough in time with the vocal for it to be vocal channel in itself. There's a good example at 1:21 as well. Vocals in a mix can have a large impact on the peaks of the overall mix, and in this case my guess is that the vocal is pushing the entire mix into clipping in spots where the rest of the music swells a little (likely from constructive interference in the low frequency instruments). I think it happens in mastering, when the levels start getting pushed up against the wall. Whether it was because the original mix dynamics were not right or the mastering engineer didn't know how to avoid it (or didn't want to), I couldn't say.
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby mushypea007 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:29 pm

Catch some photos of the lads at Sea Sessions, Bundoran here at www.mushypea007.com
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Mully » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 pm

mushypea007 wrote:Catch some photos of the lads at Sea Sessions, Bundoran here at http://www.mushypea007.com


I'd love to, but musghy peas make me wretch. Sorry.
"The band that is now the core of BELL X1 but at the time had a lead singer called Damien Rice - and what became of them all - sank into obscurity no doubt!" Dan Hegarty, 2FM 2006 (with tongue firmly in cheek)
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Nathalie » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:49 am

You don't like mushy peas, you don't like mash potatoes. I sware Mully, you're not Irish! :wink:
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Re: Bloodless Coup

Postby Mully » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:05 pm

Nathalie wrote:You don't like mushy peas, you don't like mash potatoes. I sware Mully, you're not Irish! :wink:


That sits perfectly well with me
"The band that is now the core of BELL X1 but at the time had a lead singer called Damien Rice - and what became of them all - sank into obscurity no doubt!" Dan Hegarty, 2FM 2006 (with tongue firmly in cheek)
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